StockFetcher Forums · Filter Exchange · For the trend traders<< 1 2 3 4 5 >>Post Follow-up
alf44
2,025 posts
msg #40210
Ignore alf44
1/12/2006 9:19:13 PM

"The rest are just "filler".

----------------

Not so !

The WHOLE idea of Multiple Moving Averages is based on the concept of "Fractals" !!! The concept that PATTERNS that exist on a SMALL SCALE...are REPLICATED...on a LARGER SCALE !

Each part of a FRACTAL is related to the whole !

That's what the two GROUPS of Moving Averages display in a very VISUAL way !

UNDERSTAND ?


Regards,

alf44




maxreturn
745 posts
msg #40230
Ignore maxreturn
1/13/2006 11:28:53 AM

TRO said about MMA's..."Funny thing is... the fastest and slowest averages are the only ones that really matter!".

TRO, I find it very curious that you're quick to dismiss Alf's argument regarding the value of mma's but for some reason you have been silent when it comes to calling the dma(28,-14) what it really is...an ma(14).


alf44
2,025 posts
msg #40234
Ignore alf44
1/13/2006 12:06:08 PM

...it's also somewhat "funny" that...

...TRO's so called WARM and ZOOM filters are largely based on Momentum Indicators of...guess what...MULTIPLE TIMEFRAMES ! LOL

When ALL of TRO's WARM/ZOOM Multiple Momentum Indicators "CONVERGE"...they are displaying (more or less) a "Critical Point" !

And...when the Market moves out of this "Critical Point"...it pulls ALL of TRO's Multiple Timeframe Momentum Indicators (Short/Intermediate/Long Term) up OR down together...creating a "Positive Feedback" condition !

From what I understand of EW Zuber's "Stochastic Convergence" approach...he is doing something similar with his use of Multiple Timeframe Stochastics ! fwiw

I certainly don't want to get off the topic of yepher's thread by moving the discussion to these other examples. This thread is about Multiple Moving Averages ! I just mention them to illustrate that the idea of "Fractals" can be displayed with other indicators of different timeframes ! That patterns that exist on a small scale...are replicated on a larger scale !

And speaking of Multiple Moving Averages...NOTHING displays the concepts that I have attempted to describe in this thread...concepts based on Fractals and Chaos Theory...in a more VISUAL way than Multiple Moving Averages ! imo

As I said...to say that "only the fastest and slowest MAs matter"..."that all the rest is filler"...completely misses the point of what this Indicator is showing !


Regards,

alf44






TheRumpledOne
6,359 posts
msg #40240
Ignore TheRumpledOne
1/13/2006 4:26:46 PM

"As I said...to say that "only the fastest and slowest MAs matter"..."that all the rest is filler"...completely misses the point of what this Indicator is showing ! "

I think you are missing my point.

Do you agree that the fastest and slowest MAs will always be on the OUTSIDE?

If NO, then we can discuss no further.




TheRumpledOne
6,359 posts
msg #40241
Ignore TheRumpledOne
1/13/2006 4:33:28 PM

"...TRO's so called WARM and ZOOM filters are largely based on Momentum Indicators of...guess what...MULTIPLE TIMEFRAMES ! LOL "

Multiple periods are NOT the same as MA(5), MA(7), MA(9)... plotted on the same chart!

The Zoom Lens Filter I wrote uses different periods for NORMALIZATION, not the same!!

So if NORMALIZED Momentum(12) is bottoming in the monthly, 3 month and yearly periods, you can start looking for a reversal. That is not the same as momentum(22), momentum(66) and momentum(250) plotted on the same chart. APPLES AND ORANGES!!

Not to mention, the Zoom Lens plots daily AND weekly data on the same chart!

Understand?




alf44
2,025 posts
msg #40245
Ignore alf44
1/13/2006 5:22:48 PM

...you respond with...

"As I said...to say that "only the fastest and slowest MAs matter"..."that all the rest is filler"...completely misses the point of what this Indicator is showing ! "

I think you are missing my point.

-----------------

NO...it is obvious when YOU make such a misguided comment that YOU are still MISSING THE POINT of what MMAs display !

-----------------

...you then ask...

"Do you agree that the fastest and slowest MAs will always be on the OUTSIDE ?"

-----------------

Well...DUH ! That is such an elementary observation that it doesn't even deserve a reponse ! And...it certainly has NO bearing on MMAs and the idea(s) behind them !

UNDERSTAND ?

------------------

As for these points...


"Multiple periods are NOT the same as MA(5), MA(7), MA(9)... plotted on the same chart!

The Zoom Lens Filter I wrote uses different periods for NORMALIZATION, not the same!!

So if NORMALIZED Momentum(12) is bottoming in the monthly, 3 month and yearly periods, you can start looking for a reversal. That is not the same as momentum(22), momentum(66) and momentum(250) plotted on the same chart. APPLES AND ORANGES!!"

-----------------

Well of course...they are not the same !

I was mistaken in thinking you used 3 different timeframes of the Momentum Indicator when you are actually using just a 12 period Momentum with 3 different observation lengths !

My mistake !

At least I can admit that !

That is apparently more than you can do !

Whatever !!!

-----------------

The fact remains that with respect to YOUR previous comments about Multiple Moving Averages you are completely WRONG...and you completely MISS THE POINT !

The "filler"...as you refer to it is exactly what makes the MMA Indicator so VISUALLY illustrative and compelling ! Remove THAT...and all you've got left are a couple of MAs (one on top of the other) ! LOL

UNDERSTAND ?


Regards,

alf44





alf44
2,025 posts
msg #40247
Ignore alf44
1/13/2006 6:00:14 PM

Rumple...actually...

YOUR comment...

"Do you agree that the fastest and slowest MAs will always be on the OUTSIDE ?"

...is NOT "always" true !!!

So...AGAIN...you miss the point completely !

In a DOWNTREND...at the earliest stages of an UP move and a possible reversal of Trend...the EMA(3) (ie. the fastest MA) will obviously have to pass through :

the EMA(5)...

the EMA(8)...

the EMA(10)...

the EMA(12)...

the EMA(15)...

the EMA(30)...

the EMA(35)...

the EMA(40)...

the EMA(45)...

the EMA(50)...

and FINALLY the EMA(60) (ie. the slowest MA) !!!

------------------

In this process of Trend Reversal the EMA(3) and the EMA(60) will definitely NOT...

"BOTH BE ON THE OUTSIDE"...as you have stated !

The EMA(3) will be somewhere in the MIDDLE of the array of Moving Averages !

ONLY...ONLY during a strong UP or DOWN Trend...will what you say be true !


Understand ?


Regards,

alf44







alf44
2,025 posts
msg #40248
Ignore alf44
1/13/2006 6:14:05 PM

...AND...

Pull-backs within a strong UP or DOWN Trend will force the EMA(3) ("the fastest MA")...and even the EMA(5) and other of the Short Term MAs to cross below say the EMA(10)...while the Long Term MAs remain intact and bend slightly...but don't break !

In a pull-back scenario like this your statement that "the Fastest and the Slowest MAs will always be on the outside"...is well...completely WRONG !


Regards,

alf44




dkatz
64 posts
msg #40251
Ignore dkatz
1/13/2006 6:37:55 PM

maxreturn and alf -- concerning dma(28,-14), if you will take a look at it on prophet.net, you'll notice that you have a dotted line for the past 14 periods (be they minutes, days, weeks) ... that dotted line is an approximation, no doubt caculated via successively lower moving averages (13 when it's 13 days/minutes out, 12, 11, etc). The DMA of this moment will change until it reaches the actual, projected 14 day/minutes at which time it will be set in stone, the final number. However, the approximation (dotted line) enables you to have a ballpark figure as you go and gives you a very nice oversold indication when the price is sufficiently beneath it. On it's own, the dma(28,-14) is fairly useless. But in conjunction with other entry indictors it keeps you from buying in too early. It can also be used as an exit signal -- when price exceeds the DMA line, prepare for a pause or reversal. Is it infallible? Nope. Is it effective, a good tool? Yes, it is. Riggs is right. You both are wrong. You ARE right in that it's not an accurate real-time number. Wrong in the notion that it's a worthless tool. Quite the contrary, it's a very, very nice addition to the trading tool box.


alf44
2,025 posts
msg #40252
Ignore alf44
1/13/2006 7:05:40 PM

dkatz,

This is a thread about Multiple Moving Averages !

Take the DMA(28,-14) BS elsewhere !

It's off-topic here ! tia


Regards,

alf44




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