StockFetcher Forums · General Discussion · Good Thread by JohnPaulca but is there others?<< 1 2 >>Post Follow-up
marine2
805 posts
msg #64677
Ignore marine2
7/3/2008 10:08:55 PM

Is there other funds or trades that actually works opposite the S&P500 market or the .DJIA? JohnPaulca had found TWM as a tool to use to gauge when he should short the market. Is there others out there that go opposite as well so we can play both ends of the street so to speak. Play the teeter totter method like we have played oil vs airlines ?

Throw us a bone somebody.

luc1grunt
622 posts
msg #64684
Ignore luc1grunt
7/3/2008 10:36:23 PM

In the last 2 months, the ultras are the easiest by far. SDS/SSO, QLD/QID, DDM/DXD, UYG, SKF. Skip the ole steadies (RIMM, AAPL, GOOG, BIDU, SNDK, NVDA, etc). The technicals will cause you pain. Trade the swings. s/r lines are very clear in all indexes.....watch the scheduled economic data for additional opportunities.

My $.02

:)

marine2
805 posts
msg #64685
Ignore marine2
7/3/2008 10:38:19 PM

Thank you Luc for your informative reply. This will help ease the pain.

alf44
2,025 posts
msg #64688
Ignore alf44
modified
7/3/2008 10:45:46 PM

luc...these days I trade...pretty much exclusively...the QID !!!

I have made my BEARISH BIAS known on other threads (that is...when my posts weren't deleted)...so...the QID is a nice fit...

...wide daily range...HUGE daily volume...nice daily swings...

What's not to like about that ???

BTW..."one" CAN ...uhhh...SHORT the QID...IF...IF..."one" so happens to feel the need to trade this Market from a Bullish bias !!! duh


luc... couldn't agree more with your thoughts !!!


Regards,

alf44

marine2
805 posts
msg #64689
Ignore marine2
7/3/2008 10:46:33 PM

Looked those symbols over and liked the following better than the others: SDS, DXD, UYG, and SKF.

marine2
805 posts
msg #64691
Ignore marine2
7/3/2008 11:03:14 PM

Yes, I also like the QID. I missed putting that one in my previous listing. Nice find Luc and Alf.

alf44
2,025 posts
msg #64693
Ignore alf44
modified
7/3/2008 11:23:46 PM

marine...a caveat...


They ("Ultra ETFs") are NOT...I repeat NOT... for the timid !!!

...these Ultra ETFs...are "LEVERAGED" !!!

They move "twice" as fast as their underlying ETF !!!

------------------------------------------------------------

That means...if (for example) the QQQQs move UP .25 ...the QID may move DOWN DOUBLE (or more) that amount !

That means...if (for example) the QQQQs move DOWN .25 ...the QID may move UP DOUBLE (or more) that amount !

------------------------------------------------------------

In effect...if you are trading these ULTRA ETFs...on MARGIN...the "Bang For The Buck"...can be close to 4 times...4 times...the underlying ETF !!!

They can turn on a dime...think about that and proceed with caution !!! imo


Regards,

alf44

WALLSTREETGENIUS
983 posts
msg #64696
Ignore WALLSTREETGENIUS
modified
7/4/2008 12:14:26 AM

.....

luc1grunt
622 posts
msg #64705
Ignore luc1grunt
modified
7/4/2008 7:26:22 AM

I forgot the disclaimer........trade at your discretion and skill level. Thanks alf, good advice and caution.

I normally trade the big movers, but as I said, TA is losing it's validity (%)over the past few weeks.

The ultras provide very fast moves.

If you are swinging the indexes and holding overnight based on longer signals, use the index etf's that are standard correlations with their index/sector. The volatility is much lower and the "room to breath" is double than the ultras.

Here are a few:

Long:
Energy Select XLE
Retail RTH
Semiconductor SMH
S&P 500 SPY
NAZ 100 QQQQ
Financials XLF
20 Yr Bond TLT
Alternative Energy PBW

Short
NAZ 100 PSQ
DOW 30 DOG
S&P SH
Russell 2000 RWM

Some more Ultras (increased risk).

Ultra Long
NAZ 100 QLD
Oil / Gas DIG
DJIA DDM
S&P 500 SSO
Russell 2000 UWM
Financials UYG

Ultra Short
DJIA DXD
S&P SDS
NAZ 100 QID
Russell 2000 TWM
Oil / Gas DUG
Financials SKF
XINHUA/FTSE FXP ***** Get the feel before touching this one!!!
Real Estate SRS
20 Yr Bond TBT

One last note: TA methods only carry so much weight with these. I take my signals from the indexes s/r level breaks and retraces....with the ultras leading the move in the b/a sizes. I would love to hear some comments on this.........Have a GREAT 4th OF JULY!!!!







marine2
805 posts
msg #64711
Ignore marine2
7/4/2008 12:39:50 PM

Thanks you two for providing many of us different approaches and advice to the game of trading against a volitile market. Your responses have been well received.

StockFetcher Forums · General Discussion · Good Thread by JohnPaulca but is there others?<< 1 2 >>Post Follow-up

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