StockFetcher Forums · General Discussion · Market Maker skulldugery?<< 1 2 3 >>Post Follow-up
eyoung
42 posts
msg #28533
Ignore eyoung
9/12/2003 5:56:19 PM

rump,
if the stock went pass your stop you can call your broker and let them know what has happen. They may say there was not enough of shares to fill your order or just playing a game. I had that happen to me at scottrade i called the office and after investigation they got my shares. One thing a brokerage house does not like customer's orders not being filled. This ruins there reputation and they lose out on commision
eric.


eyoung
42 posts
msg #28534
Ignore eyoung
9/12/2003 6:05:17 PM

rrochon, i believe if you read the muddy method or one of the files, some people place a stop loss 10 to 15%below purchase price. EAch stock has its own swing. I use vector vest with my stockfether and they have stops that are at times 10% or more, the reason for this is that vectorvest calculated the swing pattern of a stock and average it out. If it breaks that stop vectorvest places a hold on the stock. Also, if a stock looks good moving up with good volume and the p/e is ok you may want to place a mental stop. More risk, or buy more than one stock so if you are stop out on one you may have a run on the other. All stocks picks wont be winners if you win more than you lose and manage your money you should do great
eyoung


eyoung
42 posts
msg #28535
Ignore eyoung
9/12/2003 6:05:37 PM

rrochon,
i believe if you read the muddy method or one of the files, some people place a stop loss 10 to 15%below purchase price. EAch stock has its own swing. I use vector vest with my stockfether and they have stops that are at times 10% or more, the reason for this is that vectorvest calculated the swing pattern of a stock and average it out. If it breaks that stop vectorvest places a hold on the stock. Also, if a stock looks good moving up with good volume and the p/e is ok you may want to place a mental stop. More risk, or buy more than one stock so if you are stop out on one you may have a run on the other. All stocks picks wont be winners if you win more than you lose and manage your money you should do great
eyoung


txtrapper
548 posts
msg #28536
Ignore txtrapper
9/12/2003 6:56:46 PM

Well here's a way; http://stockalerts.com/

Manage multiple destinations for alerts and reports such as e-mail, pagers and cell phones



EWZuber
1,373 posts
msg #28538
Ignore EWZuber
9/12/2003 8:25:54 PM

rrochon
If I may. Take a look at a daily candlestick or bar chart for GSS.
Bring up slow stochastics (5,3)

Bring up a daily chart and draw a line from the high formed on 8/29 to the high on 9/04. You can see that on 9/5 the stock broke above short term trendline resistance. To get a better picture bring up an hourly chart and draw this trendline in. Notice that GSS gapped up just a tad on the morning of 9/5. Then came down and tested the gap as support several times before moving higher, giving several opportunities to take a position dead on short term support. This gets you in at about $3.75 ~ $3.77.

At this point daily stochastics fast line is rising trying to crossover the slow line, indicating the beginning of the accumulation phase.

Hourly chart slow stochastics (5,3)is also rising in an accumulation phase.

( NOTE: In contrast, it appears that your Box System uses a break above previous cycle highs as resistance and looks for a break above that point for an entry. This is OK sometimes but its a one size fits all approach to opening a position. Sometimes that just isn't the best technical entry point. )

When your weekly chart is updated for the week ending 9/5 you can see it is starting to angle down, indicating longer term distribution may be starting. Also Monthly chart indicates that the run is looking quite mature as stochastics are very overbought and threatening to start a long term cycle of distribution. Caution is in order.

On the hourly chart now draw a supporting trendline starting from the low formed on 9/4 at 2:30 along the low of 9/5 at 12:30, and the low of 9/8 at 3:30, and the low of 9/9 at 2:30.

Notice that on 9/9 at 3:30 GSS broke trendline support. If that opportunity to close out was missed it rose above it and again broke on 9/10 at around 10:00.

Look at what happened to that stock once trendline support was broken. Traders bailed big time as they all saw the same technical picture and as was turning short term bearish.

An exit here around $3.95 would have netted a 5.3% gain.

I would be very careful taking a position now because of the weekly stochastics declining ever so slightly and Monthly chart stochastics are threatening to start a long term distribution cycle.
One could possibly try a position at around $3.65 ~ $3.70. This has been tested as support 5 times over the past 9 sessions on the hourly chart. Also notice that the stock is very oversold on the hourly chart at a value of 7 and on daily charts we have the 25 DMA as support also at about $3.65 and stochastics oversold at 25. This might be pushing things though because....

To sum it up GSS is short term oversold and long term overbought.

Care is required here as you can see that on the hourly chart( with color coded volume bars ) the volume has been predominantly selling for a while now.

A stop can be put just a tad below the 25 DMA for some saftey.

I understand that you can not be around for some or all of this to take place.
This brings up the question in my mind of should you be playing these high flyers this late in the run with the long term Monthly chart stochastic cycle threatening to start distribution. Seems a risky venture to me. But thats JMHO.

I would like to suggest that for a less stressful 'hands off' approach you should not be short term trading high flyers particularly in a mature accumulation cycle, but rather find a stock that is just beginning to start a monthly accumulation cycle that has good fundamentals and find a good entry. These stocks typically stay in accumulation for several months with little stress once you get a good position. A stock just starting a weekly chart accumulation cycle should work also.
Look for one that is just about to break out of a long consolidation or long term trendline resistance and get it at the start of the run instead of when it is terribly long term overbought like GSS.

Not saying that what you are trying to do is impossible but you need to stack as many aspects of the trade in your favor as you can particularly considering the limited time you can devote to the project.
This is just my humble opinion and for discussion or educational purposes only.




TheRumpledOne
6,358 posts
msg #28559
Ignore TheRumpledOne
9/13/2003 3:55:33 PM

eyoung...you make me laugh...


Trust me, my "brokers" get an earfull when I catch them and the market makers playing their games.

I have a SEC complaint that is under review in Washington, DC. It could change how things are done... no more AUTO EXECUTION/PARTIAL FILL CRAP... which is merely a way of the market makers generating commissions for the brokers. Partial fills should get partial commissions or none at all!


rrochon
117 posts
msg #28563
Ignore rrochon
9/13/2003 5:24:45 PM

Thanks to everyone for all their comments and advise. Lots of both, and I appreciate it all.

Re: Zuber, I know that you are right using all the TA indicators. It just makes good sense, but it sure de-simplifies the process. Your explanation indicates that the price drop is the result of over-bought conditions. Could be, but...

As I mentioned, all of the paper trades I have made since 8/20 when Noah explained the Box system, are still trending higher. None have been stopped out, except the one I finally put money into.

The nagging question in my mind is, can it be a coincidence that the one stock I picked to put my money in, using the same filter that I have used in all the paper trades, dropped down to my stop loss? Did my stop order to sell "cause" the price to drop? I'm sure that we'll never know, but from now on I will not put in a stop loss order until the price has risen enough that I will gain a profit if it sells. If I have to sell before it is at the profit level, at least I will know that it wasn't some turd of a market maker.

Thanks again,

Dick


EWZuber
1,373 posts
msg #28576
Ignore EWZuber
9/14/2003 3:45:38 PM

rrochon
You have two seperate problems going on.
Addressing the first post you made on this thread.
The problem boils down to playing the aftermarket like it is the regular session.
If a stock rises 3% after the close it is irrelevent to the regular session price.
There is so little liquidity in the after market it can not be used as a consensus of investors.
Your Box Method uses a form of Technical Analysis to find entry points.
Technical Analysis relys on a consensus of the market to determine the meaning of the price movement of a stock.
In the after market THERE IS NO MARKET CONSENSUS.
For your purposes the after market trades too few shares and involves so few participants that it is irrelevant to the daily price movement and should be irrelevant to finding an entry in a stock.
Buying a stock at 3% above the close in the after market is asking for trouble.
I can just about guarantee you that someone with money will take advantage of you if you attempt to do this.
I would recommend that you stick to the regular session for your trading.
Best of fortune




EWZuber
1,373 posts
msg #28577
Ignore EWZuber
9/14/2003 3:58:08 PM

rrochon
Looking at your post of 9/12 it looks like you are using line charts to draw your Boxes.
I would like to recommend that you use either candlestick or bar charts for a more comprehensive look at stock movement.
If you used candlesticks for instance ( thats all I use ) you would see that the last 'box' peaked at $4.02 on 8/29 and didn't break that high until 9/9/03. A 1% stop on that entry point would have lost you only 1% not 6.6%.
Thats a considerable savings.



EWZuber
1,373 posts
msg #28578
Ignore EWZuber
9/14/2003 4:16:48 PM

I was told by Etrade when I had an account with them that if you get a partial fill you will not get charged additional commissions to fill the rest of the order if it fills at the original limit price.
If you change the limit price it becomes a new order and you will be charged.
Also an 'all or nothing' order prevents a partial fill.




StockFetcher Forums · General Discussion · Market Maker skulldugery?<< 1 2 3 >>Post Follow-up

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