StockFetcher Forums · General Discussion · Daytraders dont make it poll........<< 1 2 >>Post Follow-up
bpmiller1
26 posts
msg #64504
Ignore bpmiller1
6/29/2008 11:49:23 PM

I listened to a guy at a trading seminar this weekend in LA that said he never met a "day trader" that made $150,000 a year and never met anyone that even said they knew one that successfull...is that true? Anybody know one? There was no malice he was just stating facts as he knew them. His game was trend trading options and futures so I guess they make a lot more $ consistently than a scalper or day swinger. Whats your experience..true?

PS. One guy in the room said he made $350,000 last week on RIMM puts when it dropped $25 in a day!

EWZuber
1,373 posts
msg #64579
Ignore EWZuber
7/1/2008 12:19:38 PM

Doesn't make any difference how much someone made in a day. What matters is, does his system consistently make money.
If he is down at the end of the week, momnth or year that $350K was just a fluke.

Check out David Floyd. He made big bucks as a day trader.

luc1grunt
622 posts
msg #64584
Ignore luc1grunt
7/1/2008 12:35:07 PM

consistency.

Dan-o
19 posts
msg #64586
Ignore Dan-o
7/1/2008 4:38:53 PM

I worked with several experienced traders that pulled in multiple thousands a day consistently. Another office had bigger guys that took home multiple tens of thousands a day, consistently, it was pretty amazing to watch. It can be done. The good traders usually keep a low profile, so you never hear from them. The key is finding the method that works best for you, many day traders don't have patience to stick it out and manage their risk through the speed bumps. I'm still probably several years away from consistent profitability, but I know I'm on the right track because I always put a focus on managing my risk.

bpmiller1
26 posts
msg #64595
Ignore bpmiller1
modified
7/1/2008 9:00:32 PM

DAN-O ...I agree with your risk management thoughts. Ive only been doing this 6 months and can see there are big paydays. The psychology that makes me lose more is that " oh im down $500. I cant lose that ". Oh yea i can and was kicking myself a few weeks ago when that $500. was cheap because it went to $4500. overnight. Now im comfortable with $500. loss . Funny how one adapts. I made the $ 4500 back just sitting long on it for a week . But its a mental game where you are your own opponent as far as I can tell. It does seem though that going long on a trend would yield more consistent profits and thats the major point I took away from that seminar. If the trend is one way bet it that way , Im a better day scalper now. Keeping it simple.
I dont think that because Im a good golfer that i can make a living at it. I was just curious if it was true that $150,000 was beyond reach for us "normal "traders. Let me know what your net after taxes shakedown leaves on the bottom line. Ill bet for 95% of traders its south of $100,000 and it does'nt matter what filter you use..right? What matters is how the filter is used.......



miketranz
670 posts
msg #64597
Ignore miketranz
7/1/2008 10:01:37 PM

I look at risk management not only in dollar terms,but in directional terms.If I enter a trade that goes against me(directional),nine out of ten times,I'm going to lose money.The hardest thing to do is scratch a losing trade.In order to stay alive in this game,you can't let your downside risk become more than your upside potential,aka rr ratio.Some of the most successful traders have only a sixty to seventy percent win average.What makes them highly profitable is that they make much more on their winners,than they do on their losers.Its really that simple.You just have to come up with a method that works for you consistently......

SFMc01
272 posts
msg #64612
Ignore SFMc01
7/2/2008 9:22:07 AM

Miketranz: You said, "If I enter a trade that goes against me(directional),nine out of ten times,I'm going to lose money."

This sounds very good. My problem has always been about telling when the trade has gone against me. Respectfully, what "rules" do you use to tell when it is going against you? If in terms of "bars", please clarify your response as to whether u are saying daily, hourly, minute, etc.)

Thank you ... Steve Mc

miketranz
670 posts
msg #64614
Ignore miketranz
modified
7/2/2008 10:25:18 AM

Steve,when you enter a long position,the stock should move up from your buy point almost immediately.There's only two things to focus on.Your entry number,and whats below it.If you bought a stock at 10,it should move up to 10.05,10.08,10.12 ect.If it moves below 10,thats telling me its headed in the wrong direction.It could also be a moving average crossover entry or a breakout over a certain high.You use whatever type of entry you wish.You just have to know that if there's no follow through,you scratch the trade.If it starts reversing,it should hit your stop,otherwise you're losing money.That's where most people get into trouble.You have to draw a line in the sand at some point.It may as will be sooner than later.Large losses start off as small losses.You also have to know what your downside risk is in dollar amounts and use hard stops right after you enter a trade.That will force discipline on you.Whatever time frame you trade,it's all the same theory.I hope that answers your question.Mike......

jimhbutton
104 posts
msg #64623
Ignore jimhbutton
7/2/2008 2:14:30 PM

I find that using TRO's basic run-pullback & drop-bounce "Run Forest Run -- Travel Guide" filter gives the necessary 5-day average target points on my daytrades.

He coaches to wait till the stock either hits the target run or target drop before entering the trade in the reverse direction (i.e., toward the average 5-day short pullback or long bounce target). To this I make sure that the run or drop trend has indeed crested or troughed and is reversing before entering short or long.

This system also leaves the trader with the option of holding overnight -- if the short pullback or long bounce targets aren't met -- and exiting next day when the stock hits the morning run or drop target instead.

TRO's advice of charting in advance the horizontal target lines is well taken. It allows me time to prepare overnight in anticipation of the next morning's action. TRO's use of these horizontal target lines is exclusive of technical indicators; insuring that no squiggly indicators are harmed -- lol.

In contrast to TRO's style I find that another huge necessity is in being able to accurately determine when a run or a drop is reversing in contrast to retracing. This is the difference between continuing in a trend for $$$ versus bailing prematurely during a simple retracement. That is where technical analysis is extremely helpful (esp., Parabolic SAR, Variable Moving Averages, Bollinger Bands, DMI, MACD, CCI, OBV, Williams %R, and RSI) when used on different time scale charts (e.g., 1-, 3-, 5-, 15-, & 30-minute).

More important than all of the above is to have a zero tolerance for losses in the hope of preserving all-important trading capital. When the stock verifiably moves against me -- by breaking through pre-set indicator lines that I've learned to trust through practice, practice, practice -- and I don't have a reverse short or long play in place ready to be triggered, then I immediately and mercilessly exit the trade with as small a loss as possible. Keeping the losses small and manageable, while learning the art of continuing with the runners or droppers till they reverse, is where money is saved on one hand and where money is made on the other.

miketranz
670 posts
msg #64631
Ignore miketranz
7/2/2008 5:14:47 PM

Jim,can you explain in plain English basically how this system works.Where and when are you entering? Are you buying the open,buying the close? Is it basically a pullback filter for strong trending stocks? Thanks,Mike....

StockFetcher Forums · General Discussion · Daytraders dont make it poll........<< 1 2 >>Post Follow-up

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