StockFetcher Forums · General Discussion · SOOOOOO Confused!!!<< 1 2 >>Post Follow-up
DanStover
2 posts
msg #30567
Ignore DanStover
1/10/2004 5:21:12 PM

I have been attempting to learn stocks indicators. It is obvious everyone has an opinion (professional and novice). Just watch FoxNews Sat morn. everyone thinks differently. I have attempted many different software and stocks sights. Just look at this site. Offers many different methods. To each their own and that's great. I work as a trouble shooter for electrical applications. The best way to trouble shoot a problem is to start with the basic application. I can't help feel that someone has developed a basic approach with StockFetcher that worked well. Than as time went on added a filter(s). Printed SF 146 page manual, love to see a "Readers Digest" version. Any suggestions on starting out? Wrote an earlier thread with three replys, thanks to those individuals. But folks, there are hundreds using this program. Let's start a really useful forum. ANYONE out there?

Dan in NC


txtrapper
548 posts
msg #30568
Ignore txtrapper
1/10/2004 6:33:55 PM

Dan

What do you want to know? Every trader uses different tactics and indicators, many traders use different favorite filters, what you have to do is experiment, or just paper trade, another good source of infomation on SF is to start reading from the very first post to the last, and them you will form your own opinion. Worked for me.

TxTrapper


dducey
19 posts
msg #30569
Ignore dducey
1/10/2004 6:44:10 PM

Here is a way to start:
Fetcher[show stocks where SMA(5) crossed above SMA(50) and average volume(90) is above 100000 and volume is above 100000 and 60 day slope of close is above 0]



This should allow you to find stocks that may be continuing (or starting) a nice up trend. Once you have found them then they can be traded by charting the RSI(5) crossing the RSI(50). Buy when RSI(5) crosses above RSI(50) and sell when RSI(5) crosses below RSI(50).

This may not be the best system, but you wanted a starting point.


EWZuber
1,373 posts
msg #30570
Ignore EWZuber
1/10/2004 7:17:48 PM

DanStover
I worked for about 28 years as an Electronic Repair Tech. I have an idea where you are coming from. I have found that the switch from a world governed by physics to a market governed by opinion and emotion required a paradigm shift for me. I would suggest that you will not find a series of laws here but rather a number of indicators.
In the repair industry you deal with cetrtain physical laws that dictate a logical approach to troubleshooting that is pretty much cast in stone.
In the market you are dealing with people, their logical and emotional responces to the price of a stock.
I was able to use my experience in electronics to see repetitive events that occurred in cycles and in different phase relationships. This has served me well. You may eventually find a parallel yourself but it may take time and a great deal of effort.
StockFetcher is not an end to a process of stock selection, it is a beginning.
The process of screening is not refined enough to spit out stocks that you will buy, rather it is a method of finding a few candidates out of thousands of stocks for your consideration. From here candidates are charted by hand to see which ones have the greatest odds at moving the direction that you want with the best risk/reward. That is to say, that the odds should be well in your favor according to your charting discipline and capitol should be risked only in position that has the greatest potential for unlimited gains with limited downside risk.
A stock that is likely to move only a couple percent is not a good risk/reward. Betting against the trend is usually not a good risk/reward.
You will need to work for what you are looking for. Do not expect someone to offer it to you.
Some people spend thousands of hours and several years developing a successful system and it is common to lose a great deal of money before finally arriving at a level of success. The market is like going to college. Everyone pays the tuition but few bother to study.
This forum is absolutely loaded with excellent trading systems, hard earned technical observation and killer screens offered all to you at little to no cost. There is already plenty of information given freely here to make one successful trading or investing in the markets. You just have to look for it.
If you think the potential of this forum has been wasted you havn't read much of it. Its a common mistake to try to run before you learn to walk.
I would suggest that you read through some of the thousands of previous posts to get the knowledge you seek. Sure it will take time, but it will probably take you a good while to really understand it and have a working knowledge of it anyhow.


David_Lee
5 posts
msg #30571
Ignore David_Lee
1/10/2004 7:44:03 PM

Dan, I just printed out that manual. at first i was flabergasted, but no kidding, as i labored through the words i think it can be truely condenced into a simple "do this, then do this" kind of a style ...amounting to hardly a dozen pages. So i'm going to "condence" and post here. Once we try out the actual commands and vary them a little bit, seeing how effective and accurate they are ...the reward of 'that' should be enough to have us dipping into the big manual once again (this time appreciating the writers elaborations as good and valid examples to follow. Right now, the extra words seem to only be giving us 'too many layers of thought' to digest all at once.

But there were several times while i was reading ...all of a sudden realized... "oh.... this is truely a gem!" ...(you know... the truer value of his particular examples that will inevatibly spring out to greet us later? ...and 'not necessarily 'now'' when we're simply struggeling to get used to this thing.

Like a child first pounds on the piano aimlessly... I guess i'm suggesting we might actually ignore the higher reasoning for now, ..being thankful enough we can go back to the manual over and over again to pick it up when we're more ready to. (i'm actually glad he wrote it that way. ..it should still be useful to us even after we've mastered this thing!)

As for trying the screener itself...
Well...It even took me a while to understand that when trying to 'chain' one statement to another... you have to remember to re-sellect the sequence you named (and are trying to build), or else the links your adding tend t show up in some other filter sequence you worked on before! I was beginning to think i should have named my sequences 'dumb', 'dummer', and 'dummest' ...because they were sure beginning to look that way with all the chain links hopping around...and i was using the delete key quite a bit!

...And then i finally discovered the usefullness of pushing the 'home' button. That's how you get back to the place where you can choose your next chain link (if you want to use one of them rather than writing it out yourself in a blank box?) So yes! ... i will admit i am truely a new-commer at this, but i think i'll catch on some. Maybe it won't take too long after all.

Perhaps it will be like learning how to ride a bike. Remember the few sweet seconds it took after all the fruitless trying? ...but i'm thinking we'll find that few sweet seconds pretty fast. ... dave


wallman
299 posts
msg #30572
Ignore wallman
1/10/2004 9:02:04 PM

DAN,DAVE, whenever i have a personal friend who joins SF for the first time i tell them to read ALL the posts of the folks on here that have contributed so much to this site over the last few years,these folks have the knowledge and market wisdom you can only hope to attain,if you are serious about learning read and re-read what they have to offer,go to the "search" box and enter THERUMPLEDONE, EWZUBER, TXTRAPPER, MIKA, TODDDUNNING, JTHEHUT, JIM_C_HILL, ACERVAPSYCH, MURKND, XPLORER, WALLMAN ..... i know i have missed a few and for that i apologize to them,maybe other folks out there can remember others better than i can and will post


keithray
13 posts
msg #30573
Ignore keithray
1/10/2004 9:40:05 PM

Dan, I too came from the world of science. I was accustomed to 'crisp' logic, formulas, and linear problems. But, stock trading is a very different world. It is a world of 'fuzzy' logic, abstract formulas, and probabilities. I recommend that you read Van Tharp's book, "Trade Your Way to Financial Freedom". The book emphasizes the important mindset of trading, which is reward/risk, developing a trading system, and probabilities. There are 'tons' of good information on this forum. It takes some time to get familiar with stock trading. I have been trading for 3 years and still feel that I am a neophyte. I have done lots of studying, read numerous books, searched numerous websites, and done a lot of real trading. I don't recommend you starting to actually trade...that is if you are new to trading. Paper trade for a long time. Keep in the back of your mind that there is a lot of difference between paper trading and real trading.

First, decide on your trading time frame. Are you a daytrader, a swing trader, or an investor? If your a daytrader, then you can forget any fundamental analysis of a stock. If your an investor, you need to concentrate mostly on stock fundamentals.

Assuming that you are a swing trader and will buy and hold a stock from 1 to 30 days, then I recommend a simple approach. You can refine the approach later. Start with some basic indicators such as slow stochastics 5,3. Learn candlestick charting. Learn candlestick reversal patterns. You only have to learn a few to make money. Don't spend a lot of time trying to learn every candlestick pattern. Learn about 3 to 6 reversal patterns.

One method of entry is to look for the slow stochastic 5,3 to be below 20 and for the faster line to be crossing upward and through the slow line. Then, look for a long dark candle with a very long tail and high volume that day and maybe about 2 days prior too. This is the time to buy. The entry is the easiest part of trading. Then, you will have to have an exit plan. Be sure you have your exit plan set before you buy the stock. Put your stop loss in place after buying. Remember your exit strategy is probably more important than your buy strategy.

You must begin with money manegement. Know what percent of your portfolio that you will risk on each trade. Buy shares of a stock based on your risk. And, have at least 3 stocks in your portfolio at all times to spread your risk. Starting out, it might be better to have about 6 stocks in your portfolio. Don't 'put all your eggs in one basket', unless you want to go broke quickly.

Some trading indicators and methods work better at certain stages of a market cycle. You need to determine this at the outset. And, if it is a bull market, as it is now, you have greater risk by shorting stocks. The trend is your friend. There are some trading methods that are not impacted as greatly by varying market conditions. This is currently what I am exploring.

I have examined a lot of indicators. For my own use, I have found most of them to be useless. My favorite or RSI and Stochastics. Using this along with Bollinger Bands and support and resistance levels have helped my trading. I use Prophet charts and StockCharts for most of my charting. I use Consultant.com for support and resistance levels. And, of course, I use StockFetcher for my stock screening.

There are lots of folks on here with a lot of screening methods and favorite indicators. Try to determine who is making money with their method. Follow their trade recommendations on paper. See how the method performs. I think it is easier to borrow a method than develop ones own. Maybe with enough time, you can mold the method to your own personality. Can't say that for sure, since I have not gotten that far in my trading.

I believe your at the best stock site for learning about stock trading that you will find on the internet. I have looked at a lot of sites. I consider this one the best.

Keith




travlr
80 posts
msg #30575
Ignore travlr
1/10/2004 10:51:04 PM

Dan,

I studied intensely for two years before I traded $ one. With that I attained a lot of knowledge and severe case of information overload. As you stated there many schools of thought; they use there favorite indicators and chart patterns that work quite well for them, but not the next guy. What's been mentioned above is very good advice especially money management (reward: risk) practices. Certainly, the most important aspect of trading and often overlooked.

After my my intense studies, I felt that I was approaching what it takes to become part of the few who do survive (successful). I still wasn't self-assured as to what really works. About a month ago I came across Stock Fetcher. IMO, I'm not sure if you'll find another forum that is as helpful and lacking sarcasm. Those named above by Wallman have gone to extensive lengths to share their wisdom. At least one of which has thirty years "under his belt". My suggestion is to start with the two proven strategists that have helped me focus on my info overload… Read as many of EWZuber and Wallman's post's as you can. As Wallman said, there are many here who are knowledgeable and are more than willing to "share the wealth" (my favorite phrase). For me, these two helped me to apply practicality and simplicity to the maze.

Learning the markets is going to be a life long process. Take your time, read as much as you can get your hands on (the library and internet have lots to offer.. free), study charts, paper trade, and don't jump in to soon…. Tuition can be pretty hefty!

travlr



David_Lee
5 posts
msg #30577
Ignore David_Lee
1/11/2004 1:22:43 AM

[http://www.chartfilter.com/resources.htm]
go to the bottom of the page for a good general briefing on the usefulness of indicators and charts. The whole site appears to be very honestly dedicated to charting education.
Ideal concepts are expressed there that can be directly into the filtering efforts we are trying to accomplish here.

But, dducey? ...how on earth did you manage to highlight in blue?


David_Lee
5 posts
msg #30578
Ignore David_Lee
1/11/2004 3:20:16 AM

Melvin Pasternak ...(a known professional investor?) kind of markets himself here, but i took the bait getting away with one free month of the Wall Street Journal and his "Five Part Swing Trading Course". (Actually a book with 5 chapters) but i'm glad i have it.. .. He invites you to download the book somehow into your computer or make a print out of it.

The ammount of graphic indicators he used in the book was intense! ...suggesting to me we are on the right track by trying to think of good screening methods.

If you want to peek at the methods of a professional, it's pretty much there, free for the taking at the push of a button. At least i don't 'think' i'm going to be charged for anything. Youl feel like he's after your home ddress and phone #, but the book is worth the read and no one can say the graphs in it are unprofessional by any means! i have to say they are very good examples of what we should be looking for.

His Web location is:
https://www.StreetAuthority.com/subscribe-st-popup.asp
Be sure to enter it just that way, otherwise i don't think you will be offered the book for free. ...g-nite ..dave


StockFetcher Forums · General Discussion · SOOOOOO Confused!!!<< 1 2 >>Post Follow-up

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