StockFetcher Forums · General Discussion · How Long Did It Take Before You Became A Profitable Trader?<< 1 2 3 >>Post Follow-up
TheRumpledOne
6,358 posts
msg #47797
Ignore TheRumpledOne
modified
11/4/2006 9:39:16 AM

How Long Did It Take Before You Became A Profitable Trader?

After reading the "What it takes to be great" article, I ran some numbers:

1.5 trading hours in pre market.

6.5 trading hours in the regular market.

So that's 8 trading hours per day.

250 trading days per year.

2,000 trading hours per year.

So it should take 5 years of trading before one becomes great at it, right?

What about modeling? Isn't modeling supposed to decrease the time it takes to master a skill? What about visualization?

Trading boils down to one thing... CHOICE.

You choose the market. You choose the particular instrument to trade. You choose how many shares/contracts/lots to trade. You choose when to enter and exit the trade.

So to be great at trading one would have to be great at choosing. So we must learn to choose.

Of course, choosing is DECIDING. So it's really the DECISION MAKING discipline we are talking about. There has been plenty of research done on desicion making.

The problem with trading is we don't really know the outcome. That's a trait trading shares with GAMBLING. But trading is NOT gambling (that's a topic that has been debated previously). So how do you improve your decision making skills when the outcome is not certain? Or can you?

If you flipped a coin and "guessed" heads or tails can you do anything to average better than 50% over the long haul? I don't think so, the statistics are against you.

But with trading, if you can find a trade that has a better than 50% statistical chance of going either up or down, then you can decide "better" and become profitable. Apply some simple money management techniques and you'll rake it in. (SEE MY FADING THE GAP STATISTICS FILTER thread if you want to know more).

I am always amused when traders ask me the "WHAT IF IT GOES AGAINST YOU?" question. On the first glance, it seems like a reasonable question but, to me, it is indicative of the mindset of someone who is afraid. I don't think anyone should trade exactly the way I do because of the level of risk I am willing to take. But I am willing to take that risk based on statistics and the fact that I only daytrade one stock and two currencies. When you narrow your selection, you have more time to focus on trading your selection rather than looking for something to trade.

As many of you know, I write a lot of code. You see all the StockFetcher filters I have written. If you venture over to the TradeStation, eSignal or Kreslik forums, you'll find even more code from me. I still write new indicators whenever I find something that interest me. Chances are I won't use those indicators to trade but someone may benefit from them and coding new indicators hones my coding skills. It also causes me to learn something new and look at things differently which may lead to my next "discovery".

Ok, so back to the question:

How Long Did It Take Before You Became A Profitable Trader?

For me, it wasn't the time spent trading that was the determining factor. It was when I decided quit listening to other people and what they were doing, trading, making, using, etc... and FOCUSED ONLY ON WHAT I THOUGHT, DID, TRADED, ETC. That DECISION led me to "discover" my way of analyzing and trading. THAT'S WHEN I BECAME PROFITABLE. That does mean I don't learn from others, it means I don't FOLLOW on them. It's the difference between being a sheep or being a wolf. Sheep follow, wolves kill!

That's why I don't care about what the market is doing or what the hot stock of the day, week, month, year is. I just wake up, turn on the computers, load up my trading platforms and trade the same 3 instruments day after day after day. I methodically take money via trading. It almost seems unfair. It's like they are handing out free money when the market opens. I like my daily AAPL "juice".

I remember Muddy telling me years ago that he didn't use indicators or charts when he traded. That intrigued me and caused me to question and do research. Other traders wrote about learning how markets worked. I did more research. I don't "WAIT FOR GREEN" the way Muddy does. I don't know if how I perceive markets work is the exact same perception as the other traders'. THAT DOESN'T MATTER TO ME. ALL THAT MATTERS TO ME IS MY TRADE AND MY PORTFOLIO.

So, How Long Did It Take Before You Became A Profitable Trader?


















heypa
283 posts
msg #47799
Ignore heypa
11/4/2006 11:13:57 AM

TRO. How long implies time.I like your explaation of the process but, how long did it take?


maxxam80
108 posts
msg #47800
Ignore maxxam80
11/4/2006 12:31:02 PM

still working on it


TheRumpledOne
6,358 posts
msg #47802
Ignore TheRumpledOne
11/4/2006 5:31:33 PM

Heypa... How long? IMMEDIATELY AFTER I QUIT LISTENING TO OTHERS.




nikoschopen
2,824 posts
msg #47806
Ignore nikoschopen
11/4/2006 6:37:26 PM

In another word, just master the Rumpian precept: It ain't what you trade, it's how you trade. Go figure.


stocktrader
293 posts
msg #47807
Ignore stocktrader
11/4/2006 11:12:38 PM

I also agree with all of this. I don't post much anymore, but this hit the spot with me.

After I quit listening to others and stopped backtesting every filter posted on StockFetcher or that was in magazines did I really become successful. As a day trader I run two filters every day. The highest gainers and losers (volatility) with enough volume/price to support my huge intraday trades.
With going short or long it simply does not matter to me what way the general market is going. Approximately 87% of my trades are profitable. Nearly every single day I make money. My personal record is 24 profitable trades in a row.
The hardest thing to learn is entry and exit. When you see green from an entry, do you take the cash, or does greed prevent you from the exit? Do you watch your green turn to zero and then red? Take the cash!
This is a serious game for me and I'm doing this to make money.

I attribute all of this to a lot of experience (1000 trades per year) and being "in-tune" with the market, not filters.

Some may not believe what I've just described, but you don't have to.
Think about learning how the market works (bid/ask fear/greed) and how to trade.

This may be the most shocking, TRO has taught me how to "program StockFetcher code", rather than write "filters". Thanks TRO.

Trade Well.


TheRumpledOne
6,358 posts
msg #47808
Ignore TheRumpledOne
11/4/2006 11:58:43 PM

stocktrader - I would like to see the filters you use. If you don't want to post them here then you can email them to therumpledone at gmail dot com. Thanks.




nikoschopen
2,824 posts
msg #47811
Ignore nikoschopen
11/5/2006 2:14:46 AM

TRO sez "stocktrader - I would like to see the filters you use. If you don't want to post them here then you can email them to therumpledone at gmail dot com. Thanks."

Ahem, this goes against the very thing you preached above, whatever that may be.


nikoschopen
2,824 posts
msg #47812
Ignore nikoschopen
11/5/2006 2:16:49 AM

And that goes for you too, stocktrader. Quit listening to what TRO has to say...for good.


TheRumpledOne
6,358 posts
msg #47814
Ignore TheRumpledOne
11/5/2006 7:28:07 AM

nikoschopen

TRO sez "stocktrader - I would like to see the filters you use. If you don't want to post them here then you can email them to therumpledone at gmail dot com. Thanks."

Ahem, this goes against the very thing you preached above, whatever that may be.
==============================================================================

nikoschopen:

Did you read EVERYTHING that I wrote?

There was a part about LEARNING FROM OTHERS.

Maybe I'll LEARN something from what stocktrader is doing. Maybe, it will trigger a new idea. Whether or not it alters my trading style is a decision I will make.

There was a time that if someone told me about a hot stock, I would rush in to trade it and usually I got whacked. And had I kept doing what I was originally doing, it would have worked out in my favor. I would alter my screen setting based on the latest indicator only to find no improvement. I just simply STOPPED THE MADNESS.

Niko, I am not sure what the reason is you seem to have a problem with my posts.
But it really doesn't matter. What's the reason you don't have me on IGNORE?







StockFetcher Forums · General Discussion · How Long Did It Take Before You Became A Profitable Trader?<< 1 2 3 >>Post Follow-up

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