StockFetcher Forums · General Discussion · Important Information about our American Car Companies<< 1 2 3 4 5 >>Post Follow-up
marine2
805 posts
msg #69411
Ignore marine2
11/27/2008 1:43:14 PM

Detroit Free Press Exposes Six Myths About Domestic Automakers
The November 17, 2008, issue of the Detroit Free Press ran an interesting article about six domestic automaker myths that linger in the minds of consumers:

“The debate over aid to the Detroit-based automakers is awash with half-truths and misrepresentations that are endlessly repeated by everyone from members of Congress to journalists. Here are six myths about the companies and their vehicles, and the reality in each case.

Myth 1: Nobody buys their vehicles.
Reality:

General Motors, Ford and Chrysler sold 8.5 million vehicles in the United States last year and millions more around the world.
GM outsold Toyota by about 1.2 million vehicles in the United States last year and holds a U.S. lead over Toyota of about 650,000 so far this year.
Globally, GM in 2007 remained the world’s largest automaker, selling 9,369,524 vehicles worldwide -- about 3,000 more than Toyota.
Myth 2: They build unreliable junk.
Reality:

The creaky, leaky vehicles of the 1980s and ’90s are long gone. The independent J.D. Power Initial Quality Study scored Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Ford, GMC, Mercury, Pontiac and Lincoln brands’ overall quality as high or higher than that of Acura, Audi, BMW, Honda, Nissan, Scion, Volkswagen and Volvo.
Power rated the Chevrolet Malibu the highest-quality midsize sedan. Both the Malibu and Ford Fusion scored better than the Honda Accord and Toyota Camry.
Myth 3: They build gas-guzzlers.
Reality:

All of the Detroit Three build midsize sedans the Environmental Protection Agency rates at 29-33 miles per gallon on the highway.
The most fuel-efficient Chevrolet Malibu gets 33 mpg on the highway, 2 mpg better than the best Honda Accord.
The most fuel-efficient Chevrolet Cobalt has the same city fuel economy and better highway fuel economy than the most efficient non-hybrid Honda Civic.
Myth 4: They already got a $25-billion bailout.
Reality:

None of that money has been lent out and may not be for more than a year. In addition, it can, by law, be used only to invest in future vehicles and technology, so it has no effect on the shortage of operating cash the companies face because of the economic slowdown that’s killing them now.
Myth 5: GM, Ford and Chrysler are idiots for investing in pickups and SUVs.
Reality:

The domestic companies’ lineup has been truck-heavy, but Toyota, Nissan, Mercedes-Benz and BMW have all spent billions of dollars on pickups and SUVs because trucks are a large and historically profitable part of the auto industry.
The most fuel-efficient full-size pickups from GM, Ford and Chrysler all have higher EPA fuel economy ratings than Toyota and Nissan’s full-size pickups.
Myth 6: They don’t build hybrids.
Reality:

The Detroit Three got into the hybrid business late, but Ford and GM each now offers more hybrid models than Honda or Nissan, with several more due to hit the road in early 2009.


marine2
805 posts
msg #69416
Ignore marine2
11/28/2008 1:39:15 PM

I see the naysayers in our Forum concerning the American Auto Companies either haven't seen what these myths say or they are keeping quiet.

marine2
805 posts
msg #69438
Ignore marine2
11/30/2008 6:49:48 PM

Let's all pray that our Government does the right thing and provide money for our American Car Companies. It's ok if it comes with certain stipulations. But, let's not ever forget the hard work our retired auto workers did for our country. Much like how our brave soldiers did for our country too. If the loan guarntees makes them leaner, meaner, more competitive hey we will all be winners.

luc1grunt
622 posts
msg #69439
Ignore luc1grunt
11/30/2008 7:08:41 PM

funny....year after year they (unions) strongly back DNC candidates. Where has that gotten them? Unfortunately, aside from the 2 cherokees sitting in my garage, i will never again own a US based vehicle. I am staunchly patriotic of this country and it's greatness, but the long line of union bargaining handouts has resulted in as much success as chapter 8 housing and urban ghetto/welfare state. another DNC hot rock. Pay execs what the market will bear...simple. if you thi k it is excessive, let the wal mart greeter run a large cap.

Once a lexus owner, always a lexus owner.....zero defects.

TheRumpledOne
6,358 posts
msg #69451
Ignore TheRumpledOne
12/1/2008 10:43:13 AM

Ever hear of Edward Deming?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming

Japan embraced Deming while Detroit bucked him.

That's why Japan kicked our butts.

It's that simple!

petrolpeter
439 posts
msg #69453
Ignore petrolpeter
12/1/2008 11:17:50 AM

These guys must have racked up everything they have been doing on a credit account for years.Now they need credit for their credit.Many of the cars GM,F,CHR share the engines and drivetrains with the foreign brands,especially ford/mazda.Just bought a new vehicle again.Looked at all dealers again.Really wanted to give GM,F,CHR a chance,but just couldn't do it.If they decide on a quick bankruptcy,they may not even honor their warranties.When the Top Three were on Capital Hill I really loved those new BMW commercials running in between,least their getting sponsors from someone.

marine2
805 posts
msg #69464
Ignore marine2
12/1/2008 5:07:57 PM

It's funny to see the negative comments come forth so fluently now opposed to years the auto companies were doing better. I just think joining a witch hunt is more fun than just sitting and saying nothing. Herd mentality is obvious here. If it brings about change then maybe its a good thing. If it only proves that the human mind and emotions are quite flakey then that's not a good thing.

Also funny to see how people want to now throw darts / shovel dirt at / on systems and institutions that made them alot of money (if you were astute enough that is) in years past. Very much the same visual we see when the masses pick the wrong President etc.

If the nay sayers in our country want to see our country lose all its industrial power and just become a country that has rich and poor people then so be it. Sure you say, O'bama will create government jobs for our people, building roads, bridges, federal infrastructures etc. But, who's going to pay for all that? Yes, the very same people that are working on those projects. I call that free labor.

If the government did take over the millions of pensions from companies that will go bankrupt, who will pay for that ultimately? You know who, we the tax payers. Who will pay for the medical costs for the millions of people that will lose their jobs and be without medical insurance. We the tax payers. This tax burden done unto us all will lower our standard of living.

Why would we want to buy everything from foreign companies. That foreign companies takes a huge chunk or your money and puts it into THEIR country NOT ours. Don't you see what's currently happening in the oil industry. Most of your money that you buy gasoline goes to foreign companies. If any money is left over it goes to the big oil conglomerates like Exxon etc and they are making so much money that its mind boggling. But, that's ok, because it's apparent we have flakey people here in the USA that accepts one bad situation but knocks another situation.

Keeping our last few industrial powers alive and forcing them to be better will put the tax burdens back on the free market players and not create a socialistic country much like the countries we never wanted to be like. This destruction of our industrial powers goes back a few years. When we allowed the foreign companies to come in and set up non union factories paying their workers base level pay with no benefits or minimal at the most and allowed Japan to block us from trading our cars at decent prices compared to their prices inside their country is when we lost our competiveness and gave it to other countries.

It's amazing to see how people and society thinks everyone has to have a college degree. Now a huge percentage are needing a Masters degree to have an ok living style. In the USA we crank out hundreds of thousands of college degreed people and say ok get out their and get that job you always wanted. Lol, what a joke. We now have master degreed people working base level jobs. No one wants to work as a carpenter, plumber, etc. You want to blame anyone for pushing our society to a level that we just couldnt sustain well blame the universities for their greed and assertions that you were a nothing if you didnt get that God Almighty degree. Many of those degreed people ended up working in the auto plants as assemblers, etc. They said to themselves, they can't earn enough anywhere's else to pay back their college loan monies so they chose the auto companies. The perverbial dog chasing its own tail.

Yes, the auto companies needs better checks and balances to control auto efficiencies, and over paid executives. This will get corrected without losing their companies to chapter 7. If they go into chapter 11 they then go into chapter 7 simple as that. That we do not want to do.

Lastly, isn't it strange people knock the American auto companies for not doing their part in our countries greed that took us all down but what about the medical costs? We go after our American auto companies concerning greed and inefficiencies but lets go after medical costs. Look at the wildly high costs of buying our drugs, staying at hospitals, paying for hospital misc costs, xrays, blood analyzations etc etc. Why dont we center on those out of control costs? Because we are flaky people.

Have a nice day.

chetron
2,817 posts
msg #69466
Ignore chetron
12/1/2008 6:33:23 PM

no one is bringing anythiing up, but you. 1st you complain that no one speaks up and then you complain when they don't agree with you. you are the one pressing the issue. if some wants to bring up heath care, it would get much the same treatment. maybe the american auto industry could convert their factories to manufacture paper clips or something easy.

hth



luc1grunt
622 posts
msg #69467
Ignore luc1grunt
modified
12/1/2008 6:41:47 PM

I don't believe your timeframe of reference or labeling of a heard mentality is correct Marine. Here is why....

This negativity towards the big three is not new. It has been going on since the late seventies. Remember the "buy American" campaigns of the early 80's. That was in response to Honda's growing quality status and Chrysler's threatened bankruptcy among other manufacturing shifts.

I'm not sure how many "heard folowers" are in the "big 3 bashing" crowd on this forum....I know there are bandwagon jumpers elsewhere....but the comments I have read so far have been educated and intelligent assessments as opposed to emotion.

Avery is right.....Edward Deming's paradigm shift for the Japanese was NOT embraced by the big 3. Iacocca made some gains with his actions to rescue Chrysler with a government deal, but quality sticks in people's minds. Hell, Deming's photo is in the lobby of Toyota's headquarters!!!!!!!

I have owned some garbage big 3 autos. That bad taste was enough to form some lasting impressions and it would take a lot of convincing to change my mind (human nature). Unfortunately, that one simple example is magnified by hundreds of thousands over the past several years. For $40,000, I'm not gonna risk it when I know what I will get from a dependable brand (again, experience with high quality).

People will get a lemon Camry and say "eh, bought the exception and not the rule" and then buy their fifth Camry.

Quality does matter.

Look at legacy carrying costs with the big 3 versus the foreign automakers producing on OUR soil. How can the big 3 compete? They cannot...and now we all get to pay for bad decisions and continuous union bargaining for the lowest common denominator. The responsible eat the shit sandwhich.

It is a shame....but years of watching this unfold has presented an outcome that is NOT surprising.

marine2
805 posts
msg #69473
Ignore marine2
12/1/2008 10:03:45 PM

Unwinding a huge conglomerate that made America strong and proud takes years to accomplish. It's like in the winter you roll a snow ball and keep rolling it. It gets larger and larger and your eyes are electrified how huge its gotten. Now you want to downsize it. It takes time to whittle it down. GM, Ford and Chrysler are the huge snow ball.

Like I say, unless you want to lose millions of jobs and we the tax payer want to foot their unemployment / pension checks, their medical insurance, their food stamps, then sure let them turn to dust.

Read the opening thread written up above on this main thread and you will find the 6 myths that linger in the minds of the auto consumers.

By the way, advising is not complaining. Or, giving you my point of view, is not complaining but educating.

Have a nice day. :-)

StockFetcher Forums · General Discussion · Important Information about our American Car Companies<< 1 2 3 4 5 >>Post Follow-up

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