StockFetcher Forums · General Discussion · I need some advice about curtailing losses<< 1 2 3 4 >>Post Follow-up
2,824 posts
msg #56333
Ignore nikoschopen
11/2/2007 2:31:31 PM

How much profit are you willing to make on this particular trade? Ure loss should be no more than half of the anticipated gain. Hence, if my profit target stands at 2 points from my entry, my initial stop loss is placed at 1 point below my entry. Once the profit of 1 or more is achieved, I move the stop loss to breakeven.

2,817 posts
msg #56342
Ignore chetron
11/2/2007 6:37:01 PM

11/2/2007 1:04:11 PM

karennma: Thanks. I buy at the open as soon as I see what the market and this stock is doing, as indicated by the premarket activity. ... just as TRO suggests for this filter. If I had waited until 9:45am, the result would have been the same. Is this just one of the perils of daytrading, or, you only buy after 10am? Or, respectfully, any other suggestions?



how i understand "milk the cows" is that you are looking to "fill the gap".

in that it gapped up today, you should have been looking to sell short at 9:36, as it passed $323.42, $323.52 - .10. and bought to cover as soon as it slowed, at 9:41, at $322.13, for a $1.30 fill.

your stop loss should have been 323.52, btw.

6,362 posts
msg #56343
Ignore TheRumpledOne
11/2/2007 7:14:31 PM

"I need advice. Based on Milk-The-Cows (MTC) I bought ISRG this morning at 9:30 am when it opened at $323.52. This was below its previous days high and within 1% of the previous days close during regular hours. I felt fairly optimistic because this is a volatile stock and all signs pointed to an up market day, at least at opening time. Within seconds the stock went to $325.88 (+.7 of 1%) and then just as quickly settled down again. The stock dropped about 1% in the next 15 minutes, a not unusual fluctuation with this stock."

If you were up over $1 a share and you didn't exit the trade, SHAME ON YOU!

"MILK THE COWS" was designed to capture $.10. The first $.10 is as sure a thing that is possible in stock trading. The rest is pure gravy.

I don't know if you have studied MTC enough. It's a very simple strategy. The failure was not with the method but with the trader - YOU!

It's not my intention to be mean but you have got to realize when you trade volatile stocks, you must "smash, grab and run".

Even if you only traded 100 shares, you were up over $200 in seconds... HOW GREEDY ARE YOU?

There was no good reason for this loss, none at all.

Quit OVER ANALYZING mtc.... I have done all the analysis on MTC. Years worth of analysis. It works. You just have to trade it properly.

I teach people to take that first dime quick. After you master that, then go for more. You must master the first dime, fellow trader. Don't focus on what you could have had, if only you stayed in the trade. FOCUS ON TAKING THAT FIRST DIME.


6,362 posts
msg #56345
Ignore TheRumpledOne
11/2/2007 7:23:00 PM

The 20 Golden Rules for Traders
#13 - "Avoid the open. They see YOU coming."


I take advantage of the open.

There is only two things you know for certain during the day: the open price and the current price. At the end of the day, you know the high, low and closing price.

The stocks selected for MTC range over $1 a day on average.

The best way to get your "milk" is to buy at/near the open, at/near the open price. IT IS THAT SIMPLE. All runs to high and low must pass through my "buy zones". Which are the open + $.10 and open - $.10.

It is physicially and mathematically impossible for the price NOT to pass through at least one of my Buy Zones. The price ranges and the range exceeds the limits of my Buy Zone. It would be like trying to fit a 12" ruler in a 2" box - the ruler is going to stick out of at least one end, if not both!!


As a trader, you should NOT be a SHEEP. You need to learn to think and act alone.

6,362 posts
msg #56346
Ignore TheRumpledOne
11/2/2007 7:27:46 PM

"how i understand "milk the cows" is that you are looking to "fill the gap".


Filling the gap and Milking the Cows are NOT the same strategy.

You can trade one and not trade the other.

When you Milk the Cows, you look to see if the stock has gapped up/down, to get a clue as to which way the price may break first. You enter when open +/- $.10 is crossed. It doesn't matter which way the stock gapped.

When you fade the gap, you enter when price moves in the direction of the previous close.

2,824 posts
msg #56355
Ignore nikoschopen
11/2/2007 8:48:40 PM


Speaking as a daytrader, I believe most (day)traders fail due to lack of focus. Good traders that I've come to know specialize in one area, be it stocks or futures. This is especially true for futures. You don't wake up one morning and decide to trade the index futures in the morning and then switch to trading the bond futures in the afternoon and then close the day trading the pork bellies. No, the pros stick to trading their chosen medium day in and day out. This is what gives them the edge over the public. They know all the characteristics, such as when the move is about to happen and whether it's a genuine rally or just another short-covering jump. This is no different for stocks in my opinion. Market makers trade the same stocks day after day. They know all the tricks because they're able to read every move behind the stock.

Good technical analysis skills with good money management might be critical to ure success as a daytrader, but you really need to understand the importance of having the "edge" and that comes with specialization.

6,362 posts
msg #56360
Ignore TheRumpledOne
11/2/2007 9:40:09 PM

It's all about FOCUS!

Personally, I think technical analysis is way overrated. As far as I am concerned, TRADING IS SIMPLE. Price is either going up, going down, or sitting still. All one needs is a couple of price points ( horizontal lines ) and wait for the price to hit the line and trade in the direction of the crossover.

All those TA squiggly lines are just the curtain of the Wizard of OZ. It doesn't matter what the squiggly lines say is going to happen, either it does or it doesn't but the trader still has to trade the stock. That means entering and exiting the trade.

I recently posted a few filters that use no indicators that show highs, lows, stocks with prices near xx.00, horizontal lines, etc... If you can TRADE the stocks, you can make money.

Price near the xx.00 mark has to be one of the simplest. Just trade the price break and walk away with some fast money.

It may seem odd that I have coded hundreds of TA filters and indicators but I don't really use them to trade. Don't need them. All I need is price and a few horizontal lines.

Think about it - a stock appears on the RSI(2) < 1 filter. I still have to trade it. I simply place a line slightly above the open price. As the price is crossing it, I go long because the price is GOING UP... SIMPLE.

And that's why I say:


70 posts
msg #56367
Ignore dbyrt
11/3/2007 8:01:03 AM

Just want to say, that I totally agree with you TRO.

It seems to me, that with almost any line of study, it's not till you've devoted hours to learning and understanding everything, that your realize that its actually all much simpler.
I guess humans have a desire to make things more complicated (for various reasons including ego).

People talk about lagging or leading indicators. The reality is, they are all lagging. Nothing can be measured in-the-future. All we ever have is historic data, from which we predict something.

Trying to time a reversal from indicators, is a disappointment to me.
It appears after trying, that its better to follow an existing and well established trend, what ever that is. Therefore, it becomes a case of playing a %'s game., e.g., if its done this a large % of times before (e.g, as you have shown with your counts-out-of 100 filters based on a price move), we predict the same for the future and base our actions on that. Seems too simple for us, but works more times than not. (That's what the 'out of 100' has told us!!)

Thanks TRO for your prolific support of this site with so many sensible ideas.

103 posts
msg #56371
Ignore curmudgeon
11/3/2007 10:11:46 AM

Basically it boils down to "know your time frame". If you want to scalp as TRO described then you don't switch up and become an investor midstream. Scalping, daytrading, swing trading and LT investing are all legitimate. Just pick one and don't morph from one to another in the midst of the action.

You should be able to describe why you made a buy to an absolute stranger with a convincing argument and the conviction of a person who "owns" the method they describe.

Don't be afraid to take 3-5 years to learn and paper trade before you risk actual money. The best criminals in the world all work on Wall Street and you're battling brilliant masterminds everyday. Take time to understand basic building blocks of the economic system such as the FED (parasitic, private banking cartel that's also unconstitutional - nothing federal about it) and energy (everything, absolutely everything revolves around OIL - this IS "foreign policy"). The more you understand things, the more likely you're not going to be a sheeple when it counts most.

6,362 posts
msg #56376
Ignore TheRumpledOne
11/3/2007 11:41:43 AM

"Don't be afraid to take 3-5 years to learn and paper trade before you risk actual money. "

The above is the only thing I really disagree with.

You must trade with real money. Start with 100 shares. Only trade ONE stock for at least a month. But when you paper trade your nerves don't kick in, you don't sweat, you don't shake, you don't hesitate... you don't feel anything!! Not to mention you don't miss your entries and exits, you don't get partial fills, you don't get slippage, your stops don't get run, etc....


StockFetcher Forums · General Discussion · I need some advice about curtailing losses<< 1 2 3 4 >>Post Follow-up

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